As we dive into the world of Agile leadership, I’m thrilled to sit down with Chloe Maraina, a Business Intelligence expert and visionary in data management and integration. With a profound knack for turning complex data into compelling stories, Chloe has navigated uncharted waters as president of The Persimmon Group, taking the helm just as the COVID-19 pandemic struck. Her innovative approach to leadership under pressure has not only kept her team afloat but propelled them to remarkable growth. Today, we’ll explore how she harnessed Agile principles to steer through chaos, the strategies that fueled rapid decision-making, and the mindset that turned uncertainty into opportunity.
How did stepping into the role of president right before the COVID-19 crisis shape your approach to leadership, and can you share a specific moment from those early days that really tested your resolve?
I’ll never forget those first two weeks as president—it was like stepping onto a ship in the middle of a storm with no map. The crisis hit, and every strategic plan we had was suddenly obsolete; clients were freezing budgets, and my team was scrambling to adapt to remote work amidst personal chaos. It reshaped my leadership style to prioritize adaptability over rigid planning, leaning hard into Agile principles I’d previously coached others on. One defining moment was about a week in, when we faced a critical decision on whether to pause a major project for a key client who was wavering due to budget concerns. I remember the tension in our virtual meeting, the weight of potential layoffs looming if we lost revenue. Instead of waiting for perfect information, I gathered the team, broke down what we knew versus what we didn’t, and we decided to pivot temporarily to a smaller scope with the client’s buy-in. Step by step, we communicated transparently, adjusted timelines, and preserved the relationship. That moment taught me that leadership in crisis isn’t about being right—it’s about being decisive and learning as you go.
Can you walk us through how your ‘fast frame’ framework helped in a high-stakes decision during the pandemic, and what tangible outcomes demonstrated its effectiveness?
Absolutely, the fast frame became our lifeline when decisions felt like walking through fog. It’s built around five key questions to separate facts from guesswork: what do we know, what can we find out fast, what’s unknowable, and the risks of deciding or delaying. Early in the pandemic, we were grappling with whether to preemptively cut costs by furloughing staff as revenue projections plummeted by potentially 40%. The stakes were enormous—morale, finances, culture all hung in the balance. Using the fast frame, we clarified in a single meeting that while revenue loss was uncertain, immediate cuts would damage trust irreparably. We opted to delay drastic measures, focusing instead on what we could control: pitching smaller, quick-turnaround projects to clients. The result? We slashed decision latency by 20% to 30%, keeping us nimble. More importantly, we avoided layoffs entirely and stabilized revenue within months, proving that structured urgency could keep us moving without knee-jerk reactions. I still recall the relief in my team’s voices during standups when they saw we weren’t just reacting blindly.
Your shift from Big Permanent Decisions to For-Now Decisions saved hundreds of hours annually. How did you determine when a decision should be temporary, and can you share an example of one that evolved?
We realized early on that aiming for permanent solutions in a daily-changing environment was like building a house on shifting sand—it just didn’t work. We saved 300 to 400 hours a year by making For-Now Decisions, which meant deciding based on current data with a clear plan to revisit. We’d assess if the situation was too fluid for a long-term call by looking at how much was unknowable and setting triggers—like a two-week check-in or a specific event—to reevaluate. A vivid example was our initial remote work policy in March 2020. We decided ‘for now’ to support full remote setups, unsure if clients would demand in-person returns soon. Our learning targets were around productivity metrics and client feedback, and we communicated this as a flexible stance. Two months later, with data showing sustained output and positive client responses, we pivoted to a hybrid model long-term. That adaptability kept us from overcommitting early, and I remember the team’s trust growing as they saw us adjust with evidence, not whims.
Doubling revenue in 24 months during a global crisis is remarkable. How did daily standups play a role in that growth, and can you recall a specific instance where team input during one of these changed a key decision?
Daily standups were our heartbeat during the pandemic, syncing a 20-person team in just 20 minutes every morning. They weren’t just updates—they built a shared reality through transparency, with leadership sharing decisions and inviting input, which directly fueled our revenue doubling in 24 months. One memorable standup was about six months in, when we were pitching to a new international client but struggling with their timeline expectations. A junior team member spoke up, mentioning a client-side contact who’d hinted at flexibility if we could bundle services creatively. That sparked a rethink—right there, we brainstormed a revised proposal, leadership adjusted the pitch, and within a week, we secured the deal. I can still feel the buzz of that moment, everyone’s ideas clicking into place. It wasn’t just a win for revenue; it deepened client trust and expanded our footprint into new geographies, showing how collective insight could pivot our direction in real time.
You’ve emphasized the power of precise language to align teams under pressure. How did you cultivate this skill, and can you share a time when tightening communication turned a misunderstanding into a win?
Under pressure, I learned that vague words are like static on a radio—they scramble the signal when speed matters most. I honed precise language by forcing myself to break down broad ideas into specific next steps, often asking, “What’s done by Friday?” It came from trial and error during those frantic early pandemic months, where missteps stung. One instance stands out: we had a cross-functional project where “finalize the plan” was tossed around in a meeting, but half the team thought we were still brainstorming while the other half started executing. Chaos ensued—deadlines were missed, and I could sense the frustration in everyone’s tense Zoom faces. We reconvened, and I introduced clear phases: Phase 1 for planning, Phase 2 for doing. By explicitly stating we were in Phase 1, we reset expectations, aligned efforts, and completed the project on time. That clarity became a habit, reducing confusion long-term and creating a calmer, more focused team dynamic. I still double-check my words in meetings, picturing that early fumble.
Capping workdays at nine hours during the crisis was a bold move to prevent burnout. How did you enforce this boundary, and can you describe a time when rest unexpectedly sparked a breakthrough?
Setting a nine-hour workday cap was born from seeing exhaustion creep into my own late-night emails and the team’s drooping energy on calls—it was unsustainable. I had to lead by example, publicly logging off at the cutoff and being ruthless about prioritizing tasks within that window. I encouraged the team to do the same, adjusting project scopes and redistributing work, while we held each other accountable with gentle nudges in standups. Convincing everyone took honest talks about how overwork dims creativity, not fuels it. One striking moment was after enforcing this for a month, when a key strategist, usually buried in overtime, took a proper evening off. The next day, refreshed, he pitched a novel way to bundle services for a struggling client during a standup. I remember his excitement, almost seeing the gears turning anew in his mind. That idea landed us a contract we’d nearly lost, boosting morale and proving rest isn’t a luxury—it’s a catalyst. The ripple effect was a team that tackled problems with sharper focus, sustaining our momentum through the toughest stretches.
Agile leadership as a mindset resonates strongly for tech leaders today. How do you apply shorter planning horizons and sustainable speed to current tech transformation challenges, and can you share a recent example with measurable impact?
Agile as a mindset means embracing shorter planning horizons and sustainable speed, especially for tech transformations where change is constant. For CIOs today, it’s about breaking massive overhauls into smaller, testable steps while protecting team energy—something I’ve leaned on heavily post-pandemic. Recently, we tackled a major data integration project for a client shifting to cloud systems, a complex beast with high risk of disruption. Instead of a year-long master plan, we planned in four-week cycles, focusing on incremental migrations with fast feedback loops from users. Each cycle had clear deliverables, like migrating 10% of data batches, and we’d reassess based on performance metrics. Step by step, we adjusted tools and processes, avoiding the burnout of an all-at-once push. The result was a 30% faster rollout than projected, with zero major outages—a win I could feel in the client’s relieved tone during updates. It reinforced that small, disciplined moves build trust and results, keeping tech projects human-centered even under pressure.
What’s your forecast for the future of Agile leadership in navigating ongoing disruptions like AI and market volatility?
I see Agile leadership becoming the default operating system for organizations facing relentless disruption—whether it’s AI reshaping workflows or market volatility upending strategies. My forecast is that leaders who cling to rigid, long-term plans will struggle, while those who embed agility as a mindset will thrive by staying ready for the unexpected. We’re heading toward a world where shorter cycles, radical transparency, and sustainable pace aren’t just crisis tools but everyday practices. I envision AI itself being leveraged within Agile frameworks to accelerate feedback loops, helping leaders spot trends or risks in real time. But the human element—protecting team energy and fostering trust through clear communication—will remain the core. I’m excited to see how this evolves, especially as new generations of leaders bring fresh perspectives to balancing speed with stability in an ever-shifting landscape.
